Discussion:
Emulith sources.
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Roberto Waltman
2011-07-01 16:29:43 UTC
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Looking for the source code for the Lilith emulator Emulith.
I found only references to ftp://jdreesen.dyndns.org/ftp/ , and it
seems this site does not exist anymore.

Thanks,
--
Roberto Waltman

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Jos Dreesen
2011-07-01 17:34:06 UTC
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Post by Roberto Waltman
Looking for the source code for the Lilith emulator Emulith.
I found only references to ftp://jdreesen.dyndns.org/ftp/ , and it
seems this site does not exist anymore.
Had no issue accessing my site. Could you try again ?
The link is

ftp://jdreesen.dyndns.org/ftp/Emulith/

The sources are part of the the packages.

As an aside : how do I stop Googlebot downloading my whole site every day ?
It seems to ignore my robots.txt.......

Jos
Roberto Waltman
2011-07-01 18:51:54 UTC
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Post by Jos Dreesen
Post by Roberto Waltman
I found only references to ftp://jdreesen.dyndns.org/ftp/ , and it
seems this site does not exist anymore.
Had no issue accessing my site. Could you try again ?
The link is ftp://jdreesen.dyndns.org/ftp/Emulith/
Jos,

Thank you, (for both the response and Emulith)
For some reason, it doesn't work from Firefox ("Cannot find server"),
but ping, manual FTP and wget all work OK. (?)
Wget is downloding ETH_Disks.zip as I type this.
Post by Jos Dreesen
As an aside : how do I stop Googlebot downloading my whole site every day ?
It seems to ignore my robots.txt.......
If I learn I'll let you know.

Thanks again,
--
Roberto Waltman

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Jos Dreesen
2011-07-01 19:25:29 UTC
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Post by Roberto Waltman
For some reason, it doesn't work from Firefox ("Cannot find server"),
I am using Firefox (on Linux/Ubuntu) as my default browser, works OK...
But my old Synology NAS box is a tad slow on startup, maybe your firefox times out before it is ready.
Post by Roberto Waltman
but ping, manual FTP and wget all work OK. (?)
Wget is downloding ETH_Disks.zip as I type this.
In case you are only interested in the ETH disks, there is a small standalone tool that will disassemble the diskimages to readable files on the hostsystem.

Jos
Roberto Waltman
2011-07-01 19:37:33 UTC
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Post by Jos Dreesen
In case you are only interested in the ETH disks, there is a small standalone tool that will disassemble the diskimages to readable files on the hostsystem.
I have been thinking about implementing something like the Lilith in
an FPGA, as a way for me to learn about FPGAs, Verilog/VHDL, etc.

The "something like the Lilith" is not defined yet. Candidates are the
Lilith, a Lisp Machine, the Xerox Alto (if I can find enough
information) and the Harris RTX-2000 Forth processor (if I can find
software that runs on it)

This is just to start learning about the Lilith (which I admired from
afar, but never used...)
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Roberto Waltman

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Chris Burrows
2011-07-01 23:57:10 UTC
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Post by Roberto Waltman
Post by Jos Dreesen
In case you are only interested in the ETH disks, there is a small
standalone tool that will disassemble the diskimages to readable files on
the hostsystem.
I have been thinking about implementing something like the Lilith in
an FPGA, as a way for me to learn about FPGAs, Verilog/VHDL, etc.
Niklaus Wirth and Paul Reed talked about implementing an Oberon system on an
FPGA board at the recent Oberon Day 2011. You can view their presentation
"Ceres and Oberon, Then and Now" by following the link here:

http://www.oberonday2011.ethz.ch/

Wirth has also written a paper titled "The Design of a RISC Architeture and
its Implementation with an FPGA" which you can download from his site:

http://www.inf.ethz.ch/personal/wirth/Articles/Miscellaneous

--
Chris Burrows
CFB Software
Astrobe v3.4: ARM Oberon-07 Development System
http://www.astrobe.com
Jos Dreesen
2011-07-02 07:55:36 UTC
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Post by Chris Burrows
http://www.oberonday2011.ethz.ch/
Too bad I missed this.
But Chris, you missed a chance to come and play with a real Lilith !

Jos, living at lake Zurich.
Chris Burrows
2011-07-02 13:03:51 UTC
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Post by Jos Dreesen
Post by Chris Burrows
http://www.oberonday2011.ethz.ch/
Too bad I missed this.
But Chris, you missed a chance to come and play with a real Lilith !
Jos, living at lake Zurich.
Oh no! We spent a couple of weeks in Zurich so I would have tried to meet up
with you if I had known :-( I thought you were in the Netherlands - I don't
know what gave me that idea.
Roberto Waltman
2011-07-05 16:31:10 UTC
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( Lilith on FPGA )

Thanks for the responses - The curiosity/interest on FPGAs is an old
thing, my interest in the Lilith was kindled by reading "The Art of
Simplicity".

As I said, I am just beginning to collect information. Don't expect
to see a new Lilith on you supermarket any time soon ...

What sites have any software for the Lilith or Ceres, other than the
obvious (eth, Jos Dreesen, Chris Burrows) ?

--
Roberto Waltman

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Jos Dreesen
2011-07-02 07:48:55 UTC
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Post by Roberto Waltman
I have been thinking about implementing something like the Lilith in
an FPGA, as a way for me to learn about FPGAs, Verilog/VHDL, etc.
The "something like the Lilith" is not defined yet. Candidates are the
Lilith, a Lisp Machine, the Xerox Alto (if I can find enough
information) and the Harris RTX-2000 Forth processor (if I can find
software that runs on it)
I something think along similar lines, but such a project is a major timesink, and in the end will not yield a major advantage over Emulith.

In case of the Lilith / Medos combo there are several issues to solve :

Lilith's microcode is intrinsically linked to the propriertary HB D120 cartridge diskdrive. You will have to rewrite the microcode for that part. I intend to do that anyhow, so I can one day run my real Lilith from an IDE disk .

Also the video circuitry is not compatible with anything modern, a redesign is needed.

The RAM access is complicated, with 64-bit wide reads and 16 bit wide read/writes.
And i will not mention the RAM muxing via priority encoders....(the Lilith has freerunning DRAM refresh )
On top of that Medos does not have a hierarchical file system ( 1979 you know...)
Wading through 100's of files gets tiresome rather quickly.


On the plus side :

The actual CPU is probably the easiest part, Emulith should give you a pretty good idea on how it works.
Schematics for the Lilith are on my FTP-site, both the "official" ETH ones ( with bugs..) and my reverse-engineered ones, probably with their own set of bugs.. ( Eagle CAD format ).
And there is of course plenty of software available.

Jos
George
2011-07-05 15:53:16 UTC
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Post by Jos Dreesen
In case you are only interested in the ETH disks, there is a small
standalone tool that will disassemble the diskimages to readable files
on the hostsystem.
Is this tool on your ftp site? (And thank you for making these
resources available.)

G
Jos Dreesen
2011-07-05 20:25:56 UTC
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Post by Jos Dreesen
In case you are only interested in the ETH disks, there is a small
standalone tool that will disassemble the diskimages to readable files
on the hostsystem.
Is this tool on your ftp site? (And thank you for making these resources available.)
G
Yes, download & install Emulith, then look for "lft" in the "support" directory.

It is a command-line tool that will translate disk images into separate files.
A small helptext will be given if you run it without arguments.

If you are on windows you will have to run it from a dos box

Jos Dreesen
George
2011-08-01 14:46:51 UTC
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Post by Jos Dreesen
The link is
ftp://jdreesen.dyndns.org/ftp/Emulith/
The sources are part of the the packages.
First, thank you for making this available to the community!

There is a spreadsheet in the distrubution that lists all sorts of
source files but I cannot seem to find them in any of the images. There
is mention of a source image in the documentation but I cannot seem to
this either. Am I not seeing the gorilla? #6-)

G
Jos Dreesen
2011-08-02 19:04:55 UTC
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Post by George
Post by Jos Dreesen
The link is
ftp://jdreesen.dyndns.org/ftp/Emulith/
The sources are part of the the packages.
First, thank you for making this available to the community!
There is a spreadsheet in the distrubution that lists all sorts of source files but I cannot seem to find them in any of the images. There is mention of a source image in the documentation but I cannot seem to this either. Am I not seeing the gorilla? #6-)
G
This spreadsheet lists the files that where part of the standard Medos distributition, as supplied wuth early Liliths.

The files themselves can be found :

original format : ftp://jdreesen.dyndns.org/ftp/files
textfiles with converted LF/CR's : ftp://jdreesen.dyndns.org/ftp/txtfiles
diskimage : dsk_md_v4.img, part of ftp://jdreesen.dyndns.org/ftp/emulith/disks.tar.gz

Yes, I need to clean up and document my FTP site, which might get done after I repair my Lilith again, and have read the remaining 35 disks...

Enjoy, Jos
George
2011-08-04 13:47:37 UTC
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original format : ftp://jdreesen.dyndns.org/ftp/files
textfiles with converted LF/CR's : ftp://jdreesen.dyndns.org/ftp/txtfiles
diskimage : dsk_md_v4.img, part of
ftp://jdreesen.dyndns.org/ftp/emulith/disks.tar.gz
Thank you, Jos. I was only looking in the Emulith directories.
Yes, I need to clean up and document my FTP site, which might get done
after I repair my Lilith again, and have read the remaining 35 disks...
Again, thank you for making all this available.
Enjoy, Jos
e***@gmail.com
2015-04-14 00:42:37 UTC
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original format : ftp://jdreesen.dyndns.org/ftp/files
textfiles with converted LF/CR's : ftp://jdreesen.dyndns.org/ftp/txtfiles
diskimage : dsk_md_v4.img, part of
ftp://jdreesen.dyndns.org/ftp/emulith/disks.tar.gz
Reviving an ancient thread, my DNS resolver doesn't seem to be able to resolve this address. Is this site still alive? Is there a mirror somewhere?

I'm a huge fan of Oberon (I run PC Native Oberon in VMWare regularly) and would be fascinated to tinker with Lilith to see Oberon's origins...
Jos Dreesen
2015-04-14 17:46:49 UTC
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Post by e***@gmail.com
original format : ftp://jdreesen.dyndns.org/ftp/files
textfiles with converted LF/CR's : ftp://jdreesen.dyndns.org/ftp/txtfiles
diskimage : dsk_md_v4.img, part of
ftp://jdreesen.dyndns.org/ftp/emulith/disks.tar.gz
Reviving an ancient thread, my DNS resolver doesn't seem to be able to resolve this address. Is this site still alive? Is there a mirror somewhere?
I'm a huge fan of Oberon (I run PC Native Oberon in VMWare regularly) and would be fascinated to tinker with Lilith to see Oberon's origins...
After dyndns stopped their free service I moved everything here :

ftp://ftp.dreesen.ch/Emulith

Feel free to look around.


Jos Dreesen, who still has to repair his Lilith again...

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